Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Hawkins]

Hi Hawkins! If you haven't guessed it already LRR is a Tyson nuthugger. My own analysis is that a tall rangy fighter with a good jab IS a very good formula to have beaten a prime Tyson. The mid to late 80s was not a very good time for jabs in the Heavyweight division. Let's look at the fighters LRR mentioned. Tucker: Did not have a good jab (and Tyson did NOT blow him out, I watched the fight three days ago, I know). Biggs: Was not a worldclass fighter and no threat to Tyson and his jab was average. Holmes: DID have a good jab but the emphasis is on "did". When he fought Tyson he was well past it and could not sustain his jab more than a few seconds. After the Spinks fight Larry NEVER showed the magificent jab of his prime except in short spurts. None of the other fighters a prime Tyson faced had anything better than average jabs; until.....Buster Douglas: And no, LRR, like all the other Tyson nuthuggers will NEVER be able to explain away that loss, although they try incessently or pretend it never happened.

Poet

Hey poet, good to see you!

Well I think there are types of fighter that would hold the key to beat a prime Tyson. A taller fighter, with a good jab and outstanding power who could keep Tyson off balance with his powerful jab as he came in, then let go of the power punches. Someone like Foreman or Liston had a hard enough jab to push you back and keep you off balance and become a better target for the reign of power punches that would follow.

Without enough power you aren't going to disuade Tyson from coming in on you. With his head movement and defense he could slip alot of punches and get inside but once you hit him with some hard shots he changes his tune (Look at the first couple of rounds of Tyson/Tucker. Once Tucker landed a couple of those hard uppercuts and right hands over the top Tyson was less enthusiastic about charging in).

Thats where a guy like Foreman would come into play. He could do all I described and then some.

Second would be someone who got in Tyson's face and counter punched him (kinda like Evader did). Take the fight to him inside and don't back down.

[Hawkins]

Watch James Tillis vs Mike Tyson he gives Tyson one of his hardest fights he gave Tyson alot of trouble with his movement.

To really beat a prime Tyson I think you have to be able to get him to respect your power to the point that he questions coming inside. Once you have him on the outside use your jab to set up your other power shots.

[Hawkins]

What's your problem LRR, This thread has been going a short time compared to many and while Tyson does come up for discussion an awful lot many things and other fighters have been discussed in this thread.

The reason why Tyson comes up so often is because there are so many nuthuggers out there who refuse to accept someone else's opinion.
Tyson's impact was huge much like Jack Dempseys many years before, Tyson came along when boxing needed someone like him most which is why everything get's blown all out of proportion. He was dynamic and blew a lot of mediocre opponents away with ease but lost when faced with someone that stood up to him and had some ability.

Well when you keep things in perspective and not blow everything out of proportion it's great fun to debate Tyson and his place in history. But its when people start labeling things as fact and degrading other fighters in a attempt to build Tyson up where things usually clash.

I think the problem is that Tyson never defeated a prime, world class opponent so you could gauge his effectiveness against others. The only true world class opponent he fought when he was close to his prime was Evander and we saw how that turned out.

So we're left with lots of implausible rationalizations from people in an attempt to explain away everything they do not like regarding Tyson. I guess his sudden and cataclysmic fall from grace still has some people in shock.

[StarshipTrooper]

Well I don't think a big guy with a jab and some quickness is the way to beat Tyson, but thats something different.

Personally, I think they way he was built up in the beginning was what ultimately contributed to his destruction. When you have people telling you that you're destined to be champ at 15 and that you're going to destry whomever is in front of you, well that kind of artificially builds your ego.

Then, to have that continue at the level it did, led Tyson to the false assumption that he could get by without training and beat everyone because they were all 'beneath him'.

Hey poet, good to see you!

Well I think there are types of fighter that would hold the key to beat a prime Tyson. A taller fighter, with a good jab and outstanding power who could keep Tyson off balance with his powerful jab as he came in, then let go of the power punches. Someone like Foreman or Liston had a hard enough jab to push you back and keep you off balance and become a better target for the reign of power punches that would follow.

Without enough power you aren't going to disuade Tyson from coming in on you. With his head movement and defense he could slip alot of punches and get inside but once you hit him with some hard shots he changes his tune (Look at the first couple of rounds of Tyson/Tucker. Once Tucker landed a couple of those hard uppercuts and right hands over the top Tyson was less enthusiastic about charging in).

Thats where a guy like Foreman would come into play. He could do all I described and then some.

Second would be someone who got in Tyson's face and counter punched him (kinda like Evader did). Take the fight to him inside and don't back down.

Good points all Hawkins! Love the Liston photo btw. Liston is a fav of mine, and Peter Stitt and I are in agreement he was probably the most missunderstood of the Heavyweight champions.

Poet

[Hawkins]

Good points all Hawkins! Love the Liston photo btw. Liston is a fav of mine, and Peter Stitt and I are in agreement he was probably the most missunderstood of the Heavyweight champions.

Poet

I've just recently begun to truly study and look at Sonny, but I have garnered a new found respect for him. I think you're right tho' he is vastly misunderstood and because of the Ali fights he's vastly underrated as well.

[-CANE-]

Hey poet, good to see you!

Well I think there are types of fighter that would hold the key to beat a prime Tyson. A taller fighter, with a good jab and outstanding power who could keep Tyson off balance with his powerful jab as he came in, then let go of the power punches. Someone like Foreman or Liston had a hard enough jab to push you back and keep you off balance and become a better target for the reign of power punches that would follow.

Without enough power you aren't going to disuade Tyson from coming in on you. With his head movement and defense he could slip alot of punches and get inside but once you hit him with some hard shots he changes his tune (Look at the first couple of rounds of Tyson/Tucker. Once Tucker landed a couple of those hard uppercuts and right hands over the top Tyson was less enthusiastic about charging in).

Thats where a guy like Foreman would come into play. He could do all I described and then some.

Second would be someone who got in Tyson's face and counter punched him (kinda like Evader did). Take the fight to him inside and don't back down.

Pretty much agree with everything you said Hawkins except one thing.

Well I think there are types of fighter that would hold the key to beat a prime Tyson. A taller fighter, with a good jab and outstanding power who could keep Tyson off balance with his powerful jab as he came in, then let go of the power punches. Someone like Foreman or Liston had a hard enough jab to push you back and keep you off balance and become a better target for the reign of power punches that would follow.

Without enough power you aren't going to disuade Tyson from coming in on you. With his head movement and defense he could slip alot of punches and get inside but once you hit him with some hard shots he changes his tune (Look at the first couple of rounds of Tyson/Tucker. Once Tucker landed a couple of those hard uppercuts and right hands over the top Tyson was less enthusiastic about charging in).

The only thing I really disagree with is the outstanding power bit, As long as you have good foot movement and a stinging jab and sharp but not powerful punches and can take a shot you have a great chance of beating Tyson, which is basically Buster Douglas I am describing. He wasn't a powerful puncher by any stretch of the imagination. Tyson was the only top ranked heavyweight he fought and stopped no one before or after, which tells me he wasn't powerful. Anyone over 16 stone or 220lbs obviously must be able to hit fairly solidly even if there not power punchers, which Douglas wasn't but he still carried a whack because at that size you must.

That's what makes me laugh when Lewis get's criticized for having a weak chin, both McCall and Rahman had one hell of a dig on them, certainly bigger power punchers than Douglas ever was, not as good technically but much harder hitters. When your fighting people this big anyone can get put down doesn't mean your weak in the chin department.

[Hawkins]

The only thing I really disagree with is the outstanding power bit, As long as you have good foot movement and a stinging jab and sharp but not powerful punches and can take a shot you have a great chance of beating Tyson, which is basically Buster Douglas I am describing. He wasn't a powerful puncher by any stretch of the imagination. Tyson was the only top ranked heavyweight he fought and stopped no one before or after, which tells me he wasn't powerful. Anyone over 16 stone or 220lbs obviously must be able to hit fairly solidly even if there not power punchers, which Douglas wasn't but he still carried a whack because at that size you must.

That's what makes me laugh when Lewis get's criticized for having a weak chin, both McCall and Rahman had one hell of a dig on them, certainly bigger power punchers than Douglas ever was, not as good technically but much harder hitters. When your fighting people this big anyone can get put down doesn't mean your weak in the chin department.

To be totally fair about the Douglas fight Tyson wasn't using the skill set he had used to attain most of his success. The head movement and bobbing and weaving were gone. So he was a fairly easy target for Douglas to tee off on. Taking away from Buster? Not at all. But the sad fact remains that Tyson was nothing more than a headhunter post-Rooney.

But as far as the foot movement, I just think that trying to beat prime Tyson going away isn't going to work. Tyson is a swarmer, who throws fast and destructive power combinations. You need to do more than use lateral movement as a defense against someone as ferocious that, unless of course your name is Ali.

[The Iron Man]

Well when you keep things in perspective and not blow everything out of proportion it's great fun to debate Tyson and his place in history. But its when people start labeling things as fact and degrading other fighters in a attempt to build Tyson up where things usually clash.

I think the problem is that Tyson never defeated a prime, world class opponent so you could gauge his effectiveness against others. The only true world class opponent he fought when he was close to his prime was Evander and we saw how that turned out.

So we're left with lots of implausible rationalizations from people in an attempt to explain away everything they do not like regarding Tyson. I guess his sudden and cataclysmic fall from grace still has some people in shock.

It is great fun to discuss tyson place in history when you talking to the rite people! Wen poests on MSN i always talk tyson..but its real talk with no bias!. Just wanted to say Hawkins, about tyson not defeating a prime world class opponent, i dnt think he really had the chance to while he was in his best ability. If he beat douglas nothing would of been said of it, he probably would have been forgotten. He fought Evander, but as u said he was a headhunter and you cant fight a great technical boxer like Holyfield if your a headhunter. He beat the best they had to offer him, but sadly Like Marciano, Holmes there was none of his abilty around at the best time of his career. Its a shame really, and its a reason why he is matched up with other greats same goes for marciano.

[Hawkins]

It is great fun to discuss tyson place in history when you talking to the rite people! Wen poests on MSN i always talk tyson..but its real talk with no bias!. Just wanted to say Hawkins, about tyson not defeating a prime world class opponent, i dnt think he really had the chance to while he was in his best ability. If he beat douglas nothing would of been said of it, he probably would have been forgotten. He fought Evander, but as u said he was a headhunter and you cant fight a great technical boxer like Holyfield if your a headhunter. He beat the best they had to offer him, but sadly Like Marciano, Holmes there was none of his abilty around at the best time of his career. Its a shame really, and its a reason why he is matched up with other greats same goes for marciano.

Nah it wasn't his fault, they just weren't there. Granted there were a few that had great potential (Tucker, Berbick, Douglas) that never quite put it all together at once for one reason or the other.

[-CANE-]

To be totally fair about the Douglas fight Tyson wasn't using the skill set he had used to attain most of his success. The head movement and bobbing and weaving were gone. So he was a fairly easy target for Douglas to tee off on. Taking away from Buster? Not at all. But the sad fact remains that Tyson was nothing more than a headhunter post-Rooney.

But as far as the foot movement, I just think that trying to beat prime Tyson going away isn't going to work. Tyson is a swarmer, who throws fast and destructive power combinations. You need to do more than use lateral movement as a defense against someone as ferocious that, unless of course your name is Ali.

Sorry Hawk should have been more specific when mentioning footwork, I agree with you that going backwards simply isn't the way to beat Tyson. I did actually mean lateral movement when I specified footwork which is what Douglas gave him, remember that finishing combo and how he moved to the left and threw the jab and then moved back to the right and threw another jab followed by right uppercut, left hook and overhand right and down goes Tyson.

It is a shame he never had a peak Holyfield,Bowe or Lewis to fight when he had just unified the titles and before he got bored and lost interest. Maybe he would have been better for longer if they were all knocking at the door.

It's a travesty really because not only did Tyson lose out all of boxing did and we could have had a heavyweight version of Hagler,Hearns,Duran and Leonard, with them all fighting each other in a series of fights that I feel would have matched anything from the 70's.