The Greatness of Joe Frazier and an example of when the lineal was needed and came to the rescue of boxing

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Why return to a dangerous time for fighters who already have it tough enough.

How about we turn back to the original bare knucks open class where 140 lb Tom Sayers was whooping hvys?

I think fighters who cheat weight classes via dehydration and re-hydration are actually creating a more dangerous set of circumstances for both themselves and the opponents they seek to gain an unfair advantage over.

Re Bare Knuckle Fighting: Actually the safest type of prize fighting would be to fight under the MQB rules, but bare knuckle.

Bare knuckle fights were dangerous because the LPR Rules allowed for the fighter to suffer multiple concussions in a single fight. (See LPR Rules regarding KDs, extended rest periods, and the role of seconds).

But if you take the gloves off, but maintain the MQB knockdown safety rules, the game would become much safer.

Lots more broken noses, detached retina, and cauliflower ears, but almost no brain swelling.

Shots to the face disfigure, shots to the head, especially when delivered by a taped fist inside a leather glove are deadly.

This may seem paradoxical but its true.

If the NFL would get rid of plastic helmets and face guards, there would be some short term tragedies (as there was in the early 1900s) but the long term damage of CTE, which now affects a majority of players would almost disappear.

Remove the plastic helmet and kill a few outright in the short term or keep the game as it is, and continue the brain damage damn near EVERY player today, suffers long term.

Interesting tradeoff.

Same day weigh-ins are safer. Makes the fighters fight men their own size, not allow men to manipulate the weigh-ins to fight in a lower class they really should not be in.

P.S. It's why headgear is gone from amateur boxing. All the headgear did was give just enough protection to keep the boxer upright, but allowed for multiple smaller concussions in a row.

It is better for a kid to go down from one big blow and stop the fight, then to give his brain partial protection and let him get slightly concussed, over and over.

You either have 100% protection (which is impossible) or it's better to have no protection and let it end with one blow.

Partial protection of the brain is a guaranteed long term train ride to dementia.

[JAB5239]

Need same day weigh-ins.

I'm surprised (bicycle racing style) blood doping hasn't appeared in boxing.

Lance Armstrong, possibly the biggest athletic cheater of all time could make a small mint teaching boxer how to cheat.

[JAB5239]

- - Why return to a dangerous time for fighters who already have it tough enough.

How about we turn back to the original bare knucks open class where 140 lb Tom Sayers was whooping hvys?

No different than today except the danger is put on the opponent instead of the fighter who had to make weight. Today guys do massive weight cuts and put back on huge amounts of weight giving an unfair advantage against men who naturally belong in certain weight classes. Remember Gatti-Gamache?

[JAB5239]

I think fighters who cheat weight classes via dehydration and re-hydration are actually creating a more dangerous set of circumstances for both themselves and the opponents they seek to gain an unfair advantage over.

Re Bare Knuckle Fighting: Actually the safest type of prize fighting would be to fight under the MQB rules, but bare knuckle.

Bare knuckle fights were dangerous because the LPR Rules allowed for the fighter to suffer multiple concussions in a single fight. (See LPR Rules regarding KDs, extended rest periods, and the role of seconds).

But if you take the gloves off, but maintain the MQB knockdown safety rules, the game would become much safer.

Lots more broken noses, detached retina, and cauliflower ears, but almost no brain swelling.

Shots to the face disfigure, shots to the head, especially when delivered by a taped fist inside a leather glove are deadly.

This may seem paradoxical but its true.

If the NFL would get rid of plastic helmets and face guards, there would be some short term tragedies (as there was in the early 1900s) but the long term damage of CTE, which now affects a majority of players would almost disappear.

Remove the plastic helmet and kill a few outright in the short term or keep the game as it is, and continue the brain damage damn near EVERY player today, suffers long term.

Interesting tradeoff.

Same day weigh-ins are safer. Makes the fighters fight men their own size, not allow men to manipulate the weigh-ins to fight in a lower class they really should not be in.

P.S. It's why headgear is gone from amateur boxing. All the headgear did was give just enough protection to keep the boxer upright, but allowed for multiple smaller concussions in a row.

It is better for a kid to go down from one big blow and stop the fight, then to give his brain partial protection and let him get slightly concussed, over and over.

You either have 100% protection (which is impossible) or it's better to have no protection and let it end with one blow.

Partial protection of the brain is a guaranteed long term train ride to dementia.

When I was younger we always sparred hard when I boxed. I swore up and down I'd rather get hit with a bare fist than a boxing glove and I still maintain that today. Gloves rock your whole brain. I hated 16oz gloves and thought they were the worst when you got hit flush.

[billeau2]

When I was younger we always sparred hard when I boxed. I swore up and down I'd rather get hit with a bare fist than a boxing glove and I still maintain that today. Gloves rock your whole brain. I hated 16oz gloves and thought they were the worst when you got hit flush.

Your hand has to be protected when you really use it to hit. GLoves are actually a type of prophylactic similar to brass knuckles.

[Biledriver]

When I was younger we always sparred hard when I boxed. I swore up and down I'd rather get hit with a bare fist than a boxing glove and I still maintain that today. Gloves rock your whole brain. I hated 16oz gloves and thought they were the worst when you got hit flush.

Boxing gloves weren't invented to protect the fighter getting punched; they were invented to protect the hands of the fighter landing the punch.

[Willie Pep 229]

When I was younger we always sparred hard when I boxed. I swore up and down I'd rather get hit with a bare fist than a boxing glove and I still maintain that today. Gloves rock your whole brain. I hated 16oz gloves and thought they were the worst when you got hit flush.

When the MQB safety rules were first created (as we all know) the gloves were meant to protect the fighter's hands.

The gloves were meant to be four or five ounces and would slip over the bare hand like a glove.

It was the advent of taped fist and wrist that made the gloves become really dangerous.

I have this hypothesis that Dempsey's gloves (Willard fight) were not loaded with iron bars, bicycle tape, or Plaster of Paris, (that's for the racist Dempsey haters to believe) but were in fact a modern version of taped hands, which allowed Dempsey to hit harder than any fighter before him; that Willard's seconds examined and accepted Dempsey's wraps because they didn't understand what they were looking at; that the wrappings had turned Dempsey's wrist and fist into a piston.

Before Dempsey most wrappings were less tape and more cloth.

I don't think Dempsey cheated, I think Dempsey's wraps would pass inspection today. But in 1919, I think they were a whole new concept, that has come down to us, and has made the game more dangerous.

dempsey_jw_wraps.jpg

[QueensburyRules]

No different than today except the danger is put on the opponent instead of the fighter who had to make weight. Today guys do massive weight cuts and put back on huge amounts of weight giving an unfair advantage against men who naturally belong in certain weight classes. Remember Gatti-Gamache?

- - Remember the dirty commish altered the weight on the scale to certify Gatti.

Remember Duran 2nd fight struggled to make weight such that as soon as he did, he handlers tossed him two g****fruits that he chewed up whole before walking to the local steakhouse where he had two steak dinners along with a gallon of OJ, and how did that work for him.

Proper Rehydration is the goal as anyone who understands human physiology, so with day before weighins, the fighters have a larger slice of time to rehydrated.

Not the fighters' fault that some do it better than others any more than some are faster, more durable, and stronger than others.

So, eliminate weight classes and prob solved the way it used to is it for you?

[JAB5239]

- - Remember the dirty commish altered the weight on the scale to certify Gatti.

Remember Duran 2nd fight struggled to make weight such that as soon as he did, he handlers tossed him two g****fruits that he chewed up whole before walking to the local steakhouse where he had two steak dinners along with a gallon of OJ, and how did that work for him.

Proper Rehydration is the goal as anyone who understands human physiology, so with day before weighins, the fighters have a larger slice of time to rehydrated.

Not the fighters' fault that some do it better than others any more than some are faster, more durable, and stronger than others.

So, eliminate weight classes and prob solved the way it used to is it for you?

This here is the problem I have. Yes it is the fighters fault and it could potentially be dangerous for their opponent. If fighter stayed in their appropriate weight class instead of gaining an unfair advantage I doubt we would be talking about this. Same day weigh in provide a more level playing field in my opinion.

[billeau2]

When the MQB safety rules were first created (as we all know) the gloves were meant to protect the fighter's hands.

The gloves were meant to be four or five ounces and would slip over the bare hand like a glove.

It was the advent of taped fist and wrist that made the gloves become really dangerous.

I have this hypothesis that Dempsey's gloves (Willard fight) were not loaded with iron bars, bicycle tape, or Plaster of Paris, (that's for the racist Dempsey haters to believe) but were in fact a modern version of taped hands, which allowed Dempsey to hit harder than any fighter before him; that Willard's seconds examined and accepted Dempsey's wraps because they didn't understand what they were looking at; that the wrappings had turned Dempsey's wrist and fist into a piston.

Before Dempsey most wrappings were less tape and more cloth.

I don't think Dempsey cheated, I think Dempsey's wraps would pass inspection today. But in 1919, I think they were a whole new concept, that has come down to us, and has made the game more dangerous.

dempsey_jw_wraps.jpg

If you think about it it all fits together. Dempsey became the Advent of the punch. If you look at pre-classical boxing the idea of combination punching, standing in front of your opponent, hauling off on your opponent we're all very selectively employed. One reason for this being the hands as mentioned in this thread.