is Golovkin a top all time 15 great at middleweight?

[Dr. Z]

Nope.

Andre Ward retired in 2017.

The 154-168 claims were made years earlier in 2012.


Golovkin: I'll fight anyone at 154, 160, 168

Okay if you are correct, 154, 160 and 168, in 2012.

Why didn't Ward accept 164, a compromise between 160 and 168 is my question?

[ShoulderRoll]

Okay if you are correct, 154, 160 and 168, in 2012.

Why didn't Ward accept 164, a compromise between 160 and 168 is my question?

Andre Ward wasn't the one with a crap resume who was desperate to get a big fight against a P4P level fighter.

Seems to me like the onus was on Golovkin to chase legacy and go to 168 in order to make the fight.

It's kind of funny that Canelo ended up being more daring than GGG....he has actually fought champions from 154 to 175. Golovkin just talked about it but Alvarez is doing it.

[drablj]

ward had difficulty even making 168. 164 and being 100% was impossible at the moment. golovkin already signed to fight lemieux, his first unification, when ward's people mailed an offer (which was promptly refused). i don't blame either boxer for that fight not happening in 2015+. the window for that fight was 2013-2015. but ward was on the shelf because of promotional problems (which he resolved by the way of outliving his promoter). nobody wanted to budge on his demands after that and that's why the fight didn't happen. it is what it is.

[Dr. Z]

Andre Ward wasn't the one with a crap resume who was desperate to get a big fight against a P4P level fighter.

Seems to me like the onus was on Golovkin to chase legacy and go to 168 in order to make the fight.

It's kind of funny that Canelo ended up being more daring than GGG....he has actually fought champions from 154 to 175. Golovkin just talked about it but Alvarez is doing it.

Now you have achieved hater status with me.

Canelo and De La Hoya lost both fights to GGG, but brought their judges to get a draw and a win.

Canelo with his PED's, and judges don't qualify as daring to me.

GGG offered Ward a fight #164, and Ward balked. Period. That to me is daring on GGG's part.

Let's look at Ward. He had 1 fight in 2012, 1 fight in 2013, and zero fights in 2014. He wasn't interested in fighting GGG at all only interested in fighting a past his prime Kovalev, who, like his 2013 opponent he fouled.

As I showed you point blank, most in the media think Kovalev won the first fight. Ward won the 2nd fight, aided in part by low blows, then quickly retired at age 33.


Sure, sure, Ward was talking about moving up to cruiser or heavyweight, but as we know never did. Why retire at age 33?

IMO if GGG was older, Ward would have fought him, but wanted nothing to due with GGG in his prime.

[ShoulderRoll]

Now you have achieved hater status with me.

Canelo and De La Hoya lost both fights to GGG, but brought their judges to get a draw and a win.

Canelo with his PED's, and judges don't qualify as daring to me.

GGG offered Ward a fight #164, and Ward balked. Period. That to me is daring on GGG's part.

Let's look at Ward. He had 1 fight in 2012, 1 fight in 2013, and zero fights in 2014. He wasn't interested in fighting GGG at all only interested in fighting a past his prime Kovalev, who, like his 2013 opponent he fouled.

As I showed you point blank, most in the media think Kovalev won the first fight. Ward won the 2nd fight, aided in part by low blows, then quickly retired at age 33.


Sure, sure, Ward was talking about moving up to cruiser or heavyweight, but as we know never did. Why retire at age 33?

IMO if GGG was older, Ward would have fought him, but wanted nothing to due with GGG in his prime.

PEDS? Canelo signed up for year-round VADA testing before the second fight with Golovkin and performed even better while clean than he did in the first fight.

You think calling out everyone from 154 to 168, then backtracking with a catchweight when Andre Ward answered the call, is daring to be great? You're certainly entitled to your opinion but to me that doesn't look good at all.

It's not being a "hater" on my part. We're talking all-time great status so resumes have to be nitpicked. And the fact is Golovkin's resume is pretty underwhelming. Some of it is the era he was in but some of it is also his fault.

Little Canelo can go all the way up to 175 lbs to chase belts but Golovkin can't take one fight at 168 for legacy? That just looks bad, man.

[QueensburyRules]

Andre Ward wasn't the one with a crap resume who was desperate to get a big fight against a P4P level fighter.

Seems to me like the onus was on Golovkin to chase legacy and go to 168 in order to make the fight.

- -Golovkin was busy setting middlewt title defense records, whereas the only records Wart set was being the dirtiest, low dollar fighter of his generation.

Golovkin was the $ man, not Wart, so the onus is on Wart.

[ShoulderRoll]

- -Golovkin was busy setting middlewt title defense records, whereas the only records Wart set was being the dirtiest, low dollar fighter of his generation.

Golovkin was the $ man, not Wart, so the onus is on Wart.

Thinking like that is why Golovkin is going to end up with such a mediocre resume. Compared to all-time.

[DeeMoney]

Thinking like that is why Golovkin is going to end up with such a mediocre resume. Compared to all-time.

So I will pose this question directly to you (I asked it as a whole earlier), as you have derided his resume:

This thread is about how we rate Golovkin as a middleweight, so for the sake of discussion focus solely on 160 pound fights, as thats where middleweight is.

I've always felt Golovkin's prime years were 2010-2015. Now, people deride GGG for not having a good enough resume (as you did above); so I wonder what top MW (who was actually fighting at 160) during the early '10s did G miss out on that you think he shouldve fought? And in your opinion: why didn't he fight them (duck, timing, etc) and what wouldve happened?

What could a prime GGG have done at middleweight to have proved that he was a better middleweight?

[Citizen Koba]

Andre Ward raised his hand to fight him but Golovkin scuttled that by asking for a 164 lb catchweight.

That should also be noted by historians.

Not sure how that'd count towards GGGs Middleweight status but it would undoubtedly have raised his overall standing... might have even done so in a competitve loss.

[QueensburyRules]

ward had difficulty even making 168. 164 and being 100% was impossible at the moment. golovkin already signed to fight lemieux, his first unification, when ward's people mailed an offer (which was promptly refused). i don't blame either boxer for that fight not happening in 2015+. the window for that fight was 2013-2015. but ward was on the shelf because of promotional problems (which he resolved by the way of outliving his promoter). nobody wanted to budge on his demands after that and that's why the fight didn't happen. it is what it is.

- -All true as I remember and important indeed.

As the last remaining Olympic US Gold Medalist in his day, he was heavily coddled and swaddled to a title to become more a spoiled princess than prize fighter.

And that's the way he retired.