What will become of the Heavyweight championship of the World?

[Willow The Wisp]

....If young fans continue to be mislead into thinking that the One Lineal World Championship title is anything less than the ONLY real title?

In all probability, something like this:



Heavyweight International Ratings
May 2028

Champion: Not Important

1. Moses Itauma, 23
World Boxing Council Champion
2. Vladyslav Sirenko, 33
Saudi General Entertainment Authority Champion
3. Lenier Pero, 35
World Boxing Association Champion
4. Agit Kabayel, 35
Universal Boxing Federation Champion
5. Richard Torrez Jr, 28
World Boxing Federation Champion
6. Bakhodir Jalolov, 33
Ring Magazine World Champion
7. Fabio Wardley, 33
International Boxing Association Champion
8. Willy Kyakonye, 33
International Boxing Federation Champion
9. Joseph Parker, 36
Professional Boxing Association Champion
10. Justis Huni, 29
International Boxing Council Champion
11. Lawrence Okolie, 35
World Boxing Organization Champion
12. Daniel Dubois, 30
World Boxing Union Champion
13. Efe Ajagba, 34
Global Boxing League Champion
14. Alexis Barriere, 32
Professional Boxing Association Champion
15. Seun Salami, 31
World Boxing Foundation Champion

[Marchegiano]

Nah dog, there's always a most respected.


I'll be frank and direct with you, there are none here I place over you as far as history is concerned, self included. Just to be clear about respects, it isn't because we are lacking.

The more i learn about perspectives it becomes clear to me this isn't a knowledge issue either. I am possibly third or forth most knowledgeable here. As in to say there's only a few men here who ever post anything I did not know, historically speaking.

I like to just share and teach and don't really care which side of the fence my students sit on so long as they are learning. Through that you'll find most who lean lineal see me as anti lineal and most who lean body see me as anti body. I'm not really either. I'm just a fool after understanding, sharing what I do understand with those who are interested.


That covered, my honest opinion on this debate is the framing is wrong. Lineal is not under attack, the old ways of describing lineal is and who benefitted from those metrics may be.

This has been traumatic for boxing fans and caused a needless riff between the knowers and curious, historical and modern, individualist and community.





Do you, Willow, the man, do you really care if I cosign Nat Fliescher's bull or do you care if I recognize usyk as the one true champion of all of boxing?






Because, Willow, bud, you know you are not using the same metrics as the bare knuckers did. To any third reader, Willow knows the Gazette titles were handed out on defense not beating the champion. It allowed for the idea the winner simply beat an aged out man not the best in the land. Done away with. And when fans did away with this motif they introduced what you call lineal now. titles awarded to man who beat the man. This was traumatic for the time but to say lineal didn't exist prior and won't exist after is to downplay the status itself.


John L was the most respected. Oleksandr is the most respected. What rationalization is used to explain this is changed over time but the situation can't.





I don't often say it like this, but I think lineal by any terms is stronger than that and a rose by any other name is still a rose.





Off the cuff, in the past, I did mention HOF induction being more akin to Figg era championship. That was just to make something in the past more relatable today, but, **** me, I really like it. If nothing else the existence of IBHOF mean the existence of lineal is doing just fine. Correct me if I am wrong but the verbiage is simply inductee. Here i find a "lineal" more powerful than any described to me prior. More powerful even than man who beat the man. Of which Spring did not. He did, however, earn the respects.


Just saying, gentle disagree not a hard disagree, but matter of fact I see it differently sort of deal.

[Toffee]

Sorry mate but I just don't buy it. Lineal used to mean something... because it was the way that fighters proved who was the best. The Lineal champion would take on their challenger to decide who was the best.

Boxers could still do that. They shouldn't need someone with billions to decide that they wanted to find out and were prepared to pay anything to make it happen.

But prior to His Excellency they avoided it. Fury claimed Lineal without fighting anyone worthwhile. Some of the titlists refused to unify. Assuming you don't disagree with this paragraph - what made the supposed Lineal champion more deserving than the titlists? They were all dodging their duty to the sport.

If we've got a supposed Lineal champion who won't fight anyone and a titlist who takes on all comers then Lineal isn't worth anything. In the same way that the fighter makes the belt what it is, the fighter makes Lineal with it is.

It's always the fighter. You don't need belts to define the best, nor Lineal.

[Dr Z]

....If young fans continue to be mislead into thinking that the One Lineal World Championship title is anything less than the ONLY real title?

In all probability, something like this:



Heavyweight International Ratings
May 2028

Champion: Not Important

1. Moses Itauma, 23
World Boxing Council Champion
2. Vladyslav Sirenko, 33
Saudi General Entertainment Authority Champion
3. Lenier Pero, 35
World Boxing Association Champion
4. Agit Kabayel, 35
Universal Boxing Federation Champion
5. Richard Torrez Jr, 28
World Boxing Federation Champion
6. Bakhodir Jalolov, 33
Ring Magazine World Champion
7. Fabio Wardley, 33
International Boxing Association Champion
8. Willy Kyakonye, 33
International Boxing Federation Champion
9. Joseph Parker, 36
Professional Boxing Association Champion
10. Justis Huni, 29
International Boxing Council Champion
11. Lawrence Okolie, 35
World Boxing Organization Champion
12. Daniel Dubois, 30
World Boxing Union Champion
13. Efe Ajagba, 34
Global Boxing League Champion
14. Alexis Barriere, 32
Professional Boxing Association Champion
15. Seun Salami, 31
World Boxing Foundation Champion

But what about the WBA regualr champion?

[Marchegiano]

But what about the WBA regualr champion?

Cheeky, I really laughed, well ****in done. Probably got more out of than it should have.

[Willow The Wisp]

Good thoughts posted. Important to acknowledge that each one of the 15 "Organizations" used in the illustration of potential Armageddon is real. Although some unknown writer had recently coined the phrase "The Four belt era"; know that that the other 11 are just one hefty cheque in the mail away from "general acceptance". As a friend of the late New Jersey boxing commissioner, WBA VP, IBF founder and convicted felon Bobby Lee; I can almost assure you of that.
Beware of placing the recording of history in the hands of these organizations.

[The Big Dunn]

If Usyk unifies and then retires as I expect it will be an absolute cluster fuck.

[Willow The Wisp]

If Usyk unifies and then retires as I expect it will be an absolute cluster ***********.

Exactly right.

[The Big Dunn]

Exactly right.

Yeah. The only saving grace is maybe Turkish cuts through it and has a 8 man tourney where the top 2 ranked fight for each belt and the winners keep fighting until there is one unified champ again.

[Willow The Wisp]

Sorry mate but I just don't buy it. Lineal used to mean something... because it was the way that fighters proved who was the best. The Lineal champion would take on their challenger to decide who was the best.

Boxers could still do that. They shouldn't need someone with billions to decide that they wanted to find out and were prepared to pay anything to make it happen.

But prior to His Excellency they avoided it. Fury claimed Lineal without fighting anyone worthwhile. Some of the titlists refused to unify. Assuming you don't disagree with this paragraph - what made the supposed Lineal champion more deserving than the titlists? They were all dodging their duty to the sport.

If we've got a supposed Lineal champion who won't fight anyone and a titlist who takes on all comers then Lineal isn't worth anything. In the same way that the fighter makes the belt what it is, the fighter makes Lineal with it is.

It's always the fighter. You don't need belts to define the best, nor Lineal.

There is a contradiction in there, when you state that "It's always the fighter", but you'd place a contrived belt that some non-fighter can strip and bestow without a fight!

The man who beat the man process is engineered to prevent that, so that it's ALWAYS the fighter.