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The last good White American champion......

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    #41
    The very nature of this discussion is racially charged. I hesitate to join, but I think it might be worth mentioning a couple of things. There are probably several factors why there have been few, if any, dominant, recent white American boxers. Some studies have found that black people, as a whole, tend to have a greater number of fast-twitch muscle fibers than other races. This is quite possible, as it’s plain to see that blacks tend to excel at activities requiring speed. When was the last time anyone other than a black man won the 100 meter dash at the Olympics? As far as boxing goes, we all know the refrain, “speed kills.” Also, speed is a major component of power. Every now and then, you’ll get someone who bucks the trend — a white guy with exceptional speed, like Lomachenko — but, for the most part, when you see a truly fast fighter, he’s usually black. Is it a coincidence that Vasyl happens to be a P4P fighter with that speed? For those interested, there’s a book called “Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We’re Afraid to Talk About It,” by Jon Entine, which addresses the matter at length.

    Boxing is a sport with a high dependence on speed. But what of the strength based sports, or endeavors where speed isn’t as important? I’ve enjoyed watching “World’s Strongest Man” competitions for years. Anyone watching would eventually note that men dominate that sport. And, as already mentioned by others, MMA and wrestling tend to be heavy on white champions. Maybe there isn’t just one reason for the imbalances. Maybe it’s all ultimately explainable through social and environmental means. Whatever the case, it’s interesting to note that there are obvious discrepancies we’re simply not sure about.

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      #42
      Originally posted by chrisJS View Post
      You think Ward is greater than the following?

      Harry Greb
      Willie Pep
      Benny Leonard
      Gene Tunney
      Billy Conn
      Tommy Loughran
      Mickey Walker
      Barney Ross
      Jimmy McLarnin
      Tony Canzaoneri
      Abe Attell
      Lou Ambers
      Stanley Ketchel
      Carmen Basilio
      Terry McGovern
      Ad Wolgast
      Sammy Angott
      Rocky Marciano
      Jack Dempsey
      Jack Britton
      Tommy Ryan

      Just to name a few strictly from the US? If so you either don't know who they are or are very biased. They all have far superior legacies than Ward. That's just off the top of the head there's many more with better careers and legacies.

      Pep & Greb are in most top 5's ever. Leonard is in most top 10's. Tunney, Ross, McLarnin are often in top 20's and a lot of the others would be in most top 50's. Ward wouldn't even sniff the top 100.
      YAWN. We all know you haven't watched 95% of these guys fight.

      You just listed a whole bunch of fighters from the 30's to appear knowledgeable.

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        #43
        Why should race play a part in this? The bigger issue is how far behind the US is in terms of its amateur stable when compared to Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Cuba and Great Britain.

        The amateurs used to be the breeding ground for great professional fighters in America but when was the last time that happened? Some may mention Andre Ward but he never achieved true greatness, regardless of how good he was at times. One may never watch him and think he is a fighter as good as Lomachenko, Golovkin or Calzaghe.

        The entirety of the country has fallen on hard times when it comes to creating great fighters, regardless of race. During my time covering the sport, American amateurs in the 70s ad 80s were must watch, as were American professionals, now that is no longer true.

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          #44
          Originally posted by mcdonalds View Post
          YAWN. We all know you haven't watched 95% of these guys fight. You just listed a whole bunch of fighters from the 30's to appear knowledgeable. lmfao
          You've never heard of 95% of these guys and while it's true there's less footage of them that shouldn't/doesn't affect their legacy or place in history. It just requires you research more and read more. There's no fight film footage of Greb but does that detract from his legacy? His resume is arguably the best ever.

          Why wouldn't I have seen most of those guys fight? Most are available to see on YouTube and I've done plenty of trades and collecting of VHS/DVD/Downloads since the 90's in addition to plenty of reading material being available. Boxrec which is the maximum extent of your efforts to seek further knowledge is also available. As far as "listing a whole bunch of guys", no. I carefully selected some bona-fide all-time greats of the top of my head.

          You think Ward is one of the best ever. Cool. His best wins are two controversial wins (one was a clear loss) against Kovalev who I'm sure you felt ****** and wouldn't be in the top 300 fighters to ever fight.

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            #45
            Originally posted by MisterHardtop View Post
            Why should race play a part in this? The bigger issue is how far behind the US is in terms of its amateur stable when compared to Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Cuba and Great Britain.

            The amateurs used to be the breeding ground for great professional fighters in America but when was the last time that happened? Some may mention Andre Ward but he never achieved true greatness, regardless of how good he was at times. One may never watch him and think he is a fighter as good as Lomachenko, Golovkin or Calzaghe.

            The entirety of the country has fallen on hard times when it comes to creating great fighters, regardless of race. During my time covering the sport, American amateurs in the 70s ad 80s were must watch, as were American professionals, now that is no longer true.
            I apologize if this came off as racially charged, but in my defense I just curious to the question on when was the last good or great White American champ came.

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              #46
              Chris Algieri

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                #47
                Originally posted by MisterHardtop View Post
                Why should race play a part in this? The bigger issue is how far behind the US is in terms of its amateur stable when compared to Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Cuba and Great Britain.

                The amateurs used to be the breeding ground for great professional fighters in America but when was the last time that happened? Some may mention Andre Ward but he never achieved true greatness, regardless of how good he was at times. One may never watch him and think he is a fighter as good as Lomachenko, Golovkin or Calzaghe.

                The entirety of the country has fallen on hard times when it comes to creating great fighters, regardless of race. During my time covering the sport, American amateurs in the 70s ad 80s were must watch, as were American professionals, now that is no longer true.
                I don't think Ward was a great fighter. He was a very good one. I think Crawford is a great fighter but he still has to prove that to be considered a great fighter in a historical context. Nobody else appears destined for greatness but then again scour the World ranks and I think only Lomachenko, Usyk, Inoue (and Crawford of course) have that look IMO.

                Boxing has just gotten less popular over here compared to other sports. It hasn't been #1 or #2 for a while but the gap is widening between other sports. The cities that have good Boxing traditions are less poor than they used to be also so there's that and I think obviously the coaching has gotten worse especially at the amateur level.

                I think there will still always be elite boxers coming out of America due to the sheer size and opportunity still available. Most Cuban's aren't fleeing or turning pro and it's still always going to be harder for EE guys to break through but I think both are obviously teaching their fighters better and the kids are hungrier for the most part.

                I do think unless there's a major overhaul in the coaching here and amateur system and there's a way to present Boxing in a better light then the number of US stars compared to International stars will get smaller and smaller. I think if the pound for pound top 20 list became 20 fighters from far and away lands half of this forum would stop watching the sport that's just the way some Boxing "fans" think when they care too much about where a fighter is or isn't from.

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by Thraxox View Post
                  I apologize if this came off as racially charged, but in my defense I just curious to the question on when was the last good or great White American champ came.
                  It is a question that does not matter.

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                    #49
                    Canelo.

                    He is white, of Mexican descent, and is from North America.

                    He is a good white American champ.

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                      #50
                      White ppl should be proud of malinaggi guy was a brutal puncher helluva chin, beat many great fighters and a future hof.

                      Long live the great Paulie malinaggi

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