The great HW men who wouldn't quit.

[Mr Mitts]

Yes, that's what the "modern-bashers" like to say... but where's the proof, that this is true?

That things like toughness and courage are era-dependant, is highly doubtful, IMO. Anyway, it's something that can't be measured or proven one way or the other!

Yes, intangibles are not metrics that can be measured by science. That is why they are called intangibles. Even beard is not measurable. We know intangibles exist and vary among fighters but the best measuring tools we have are intuition and guess-timation, which frankly will not win any prizes.

One definition of intangible is: not or represented by a physical object and of a value not precisely .

Perhaps Basilio would have quit if the cornerman had a mirror. But no, probably not. I do believe many another fighter would have quit though. Today a fight would never go long enough to see if youngsters today would quit.

[GhostofDempsey]

Conner Benn

. . . fighters are so focused on protecting their unbeaten records that they won’t take any chances. Fans believe that these three want the millions being given to them by Turki, but aren’t interested in fighting.

This is the Mayweather effect. He mentored Tank to navigate his career the same way. For years PBC fighters avoided risks to preserve their undefeated records until they had no other alternative than to step up and fight mandatories and pursue bigger paychecks against real challenges.

[Tatabanya]

So, you don't think Tyson's 'second' bite was a disguised quit? I did.

No, you can call that reaction in any way but not a quit. Tyson forgot to be a prizefighter, and turned into a street thug - he just lost it. To this day I believe he would have won that rematch, had he not snapped. Tyson under Richie Giachetti was the second-best version of Iron Mike after Kevin Rooney's.

[Bronson66]

You caught me.

I went to ChatGPT to test my theory and asked for HW Champions who quit on their stool.

The AI came back with Tyson, but as you note, it pointed to the McBride fight.

I didn't think that controversial enough so to get my thread going, so I cheated and pointed to the ear bite fight.

The AI didn't see that ear bite fight as a 'quit' either.

So, you don't think Tyson's 'second' bite was a disguised quit? I did.

There are several ways to quit,depending on your definition of quit.
Harry Wills quit against Sharkey imo, he fouled out to save himself from more punishment.

David Tua quit against Lewis or, if you don't accept that,he quit trying to win and settled for going the distance,many fighters opt for this route when they realise they are out of their depth and in for a painful evening.

Genaro Hernandez quit after sustaining a broken nose,I can't remember if it was against Oscar or Floyd. Only he knows how bad the pain was,and it ill behoves "civilians" to condemn him.imo
Liston carried on with a broken nose against Williams,and a broken jaw against Marshall . but swallowed it against Ali twice,I tend to think he was obeying,"orders",on those two occasions,certainly in the second one.

Brian London and Jurgen Blin both admitted to quitting against Ali.

"I shouldn't say these things". " I shouldn't ever tell."
" But I didnt really try .I decided he was too good for me.Not going in . I gave me best for 2 or 3 rounds.But then I realized I was going to get one hell of a hiding.
The way I fought,I was going to keep coming to him,I was going to keep throwing punches and invariably I may catch him.

But he was so fast,he was faster than most heavyweight in the world.Ever.
I don't know of any heavyweight faster,even now."
Brian London.


" I could feel that Ali was trying to knock me out.Then in the 6th round,I went down,but I managed to get up."

"But in the 7th round , I got knocked down again."

"I could have gone on.Maybe I should have.But then I would have been knocked out in the 9th or10th round, in a bad way.So I live to fight another day"
Jurgen Blin.

Both quotes from" Facing Ali," by Stephen Brunt.
Both men quit,but whereas London tamely surrendered.
Blin gave his best and took his stick until he realised it was pointless to continue.

London was known in the UK as "a good on top fighter",ie when he thought he was in with a good chance,he ,"went for gold," that was not always the case in other fights.

[Bundana]

Where are the Arturo gattis? Where are the carmen basilios? Where are the Jake La Mottas? Where are the Marvin haglers or Roberto durans? If you think fighters are as tough as they used to be you are wrong.

Am I factually wrong - or do you just want to believe I'm wrong?

You don't think, we have had modern fighters, who didn't look for the exit, but were willing to go on despite being seriously injured, like the one-eyed Basilio? Really?? Have you ever heard of Denis Lebedev �r Eric Morales?

When did Hagler ever prove his toughness, by refusing to quit in a fight where he was severely punished, with little hope of winning? I can't remember that ever happening!

And Duran wasn't exactly showering himself with "toughness-glory" in that embarrassing "No Mas" affair, was he?

Yes, Gatti certainly fought to the best of his ability, every time he was in the ring. And so did the gutsy Spaniard Kiko Martinez of more recent times. As did Chisora (already mentioned). And how about Mahyar Monshipour - have you ever seen anyone try harder in a losing effort (against Somsak Sithchatchawal)?

So once again: There have always been tough and brave boxers - just as there have always been those less gifted in that regard. Obviously, no era can lay factual claim to having the most courageous fighters!

[Anomalocaris]

You caught me.

I went to ChatGPT to test my theory and asked for HW Champions who quit on their stool.

The AI came back with Tyson, but as you note, it pointed to the McBride fight.

I didn't think that controversial enough so to get my thread going, so I cheated and pointed to the ear bite fight.

The AI didn't see that ear bite fight as a 'quit' either.

So, you don't think Tyson's 'second' bite was a disguised quit? I did.

It was to me as well.

He simply did not have the mental fortitude of Holy.

[Tatabanya]

George Chuvalo, anyone?

He NEVER quit. In a boxing ring, and - especially - in his incredibly unlucky private life.

[Tatabanya]

He simply did not have the mental fortitude of Holy.

And also the cranial fortitude

[JAB5239]

George Chuvalo, anyone?

He NEVER quit. In a boxing ring, and - especially - in his incredibly unlucky private life.

I have the utmost respect for Chuvalo. His mental fortitude should be admired by all.

[JAB5239]

Vinny Pazienza never quit.