is Golovkin a top all time 15 great at middleweight?

[DeeMoney]

I think it's pretty obvious he is.

I'd only definitively put

Robinson
Greb
Monzon
Hagler
Lamotta
Cerdan
Ketchel
Burley

ahead of him.

So, I'd say a top 10-15 all-time middleweight.

I think this is the right way to do it, list the guys you have ahead of him and see where he lands.

I don't think he touches the Mt Rushmore of the division:
Monzon, Hagler, Greb, Robinson.

I think there then comes a group of fighters that are probably ahead of him at Middle Weight:
Ketchel, Steele, Cerdan, Hopkins, Burley, Flowers

I think he can fit in with the next group: Walker, Tiger, Lamotta, Zale.

Of course there are guys who may have been better but did most of their work elsewhere: RJJ, Toney, Fitzsimmons, Langford

[joseph5620]

Hagler clearly lost to Monroe. No issues there. I did not see the Watts fight. The draw with Vito was close, I think Hagler edged it.

My point is past middleweight greats retired young, avoiding losses and when they did lose or draw they were vs lesser men than Canelo, who GGG beat on fair scorecards. That point stands.

GGG out landed Canelo in 10 of 12 rounds.

I didn't highlight Monroe. The Watts and Antuofermo fights were clear Hagler wins to me and people who commented publicly on it. I personally didn't think the Antuofermo fight was close at all.


I thought Golovkin edged Canelo in the first fight but clearly lost the second one in my opinion. Although it was close Canelo did far more damage and forced Golovkin to fight going back in much of the fight.

[drablj]

top 25 in the gloved era in my opinion:
fitzsimmons
ketchel
greb
flowers
walker
freddie steele
zale
burley
robinson
cerdan
lamotta
fullmer
tiger
griffith
benvenuti
monzon
hagler
mccallum
nunn
toney
jones
mcclellan
hopkins
martinez
golovkin

sam langford could be in there if somebody wants to rank him as a middleweight.
are there 15 better and greater fighters than golovkin on the list? i say no.

[QueensburyRules]

Hagler clearly lost to Monroe. No issues there. I did not see the Watts fight. The draw with Vito was close, I think Hagler edged it.

My point is past middleweight greats retired young, avoiding losses and when they did lose or draw they were vs lesser men than Canelo, who GGG beat on fair scorecards. That point stands.

GGG out landed Canelo in 10 of 12 rounds.

- -Drunken punch monkey stats last refuge of a scoundrel...see Lampley...

[The Old LefHook]

The likes of Fullmer, Graziano and Zale would be true handfuls for GGG. Maybe he could take them, maybe not. Gene would probably badly disconcert him with his boiler room tactics. Amateurs are so polite, where most of GGG's ring career was spent. Gene's down jab may chop him to bits.

Greb
Hagler
Robinson
Monzon
Fitz
Langford
Walker
Ketchel
Cerdan
Zale
Lamotta
Turpin
Graziano
Fullmer
Giardello
Carter
GGG?

As you can see, GGG still has a bit to prove himself. A clear victory against Carnelo would lift him a few spots. Neither man has clearly beaten the other yet.

[ShoulderRoll]

Golovkin's defenses of the WBA "regular" title shouldn't count towards any record.

Similar to how Canelo couldn't be considered a world champion at 168 for winning Rocky Fielding's "regular" title. It wasn't until this past weekend that Alvarez became a legit 4 division champion.

Boxing historians should, and will, look at that.

[The Old LefHook]

If a man has the Eagle's belt for his division, that should be enough. I predict Suliaman will add a long overdue Eagle's belt to each division's beautiful collection. The Eagle eye of the public, by voting and a small fee, will determine and award this particular belt to whoever it believes is each division's top fighter. It cannot be lost in the ring.

[Dr. Z]

Golovkin's defenses of the WBA "regular" title shouldn't count towards any record.

Similar to how Canelo couldn't be considered a world champion at 168 for winning Rocky Fielding's "regular" title. It wasn't until this past weekend that Alvarez became a legit 4 division champion.

Boxing historians should, and will, look at that.

The days of one champion are unfortunately long gone. Who is to say the WBA regular champion isn't better than the IBF champion? Strum would not fight Golovkin for his WBA title.

The fighters makes the belt, not the other way around in 2020.

Hopkins had 20 consecutive title defenses, which is impressive, but it wasn't lineal, nor was it in a row. I know some historians who say that and Monzon holds the real record with 14 because it's all lineal. The debate will never be solved. Golovkin has 21 title defenses, and most in the media say that is the record. If you have 14, 20 , or 21 title defenses, that's impressive. I'm not saying Golovkin's title defense were better than Monzon's. I view them close to even.

This isn't a GGG is better than Monzon or Hopkins thread, its a is he a top 15 all time middle weight who's still active.

Here a good article on the topic from Cliff Rold at Boxing Scene


http://jeetwin24.com/golovkin...medium=twitter

[Dr. Z]

The likes of Fullmer, Graziano and Zale would be true handfuls for GGG. Maybe he could take them, maybe not. Gene would probably badly disconcert him with his boiler room tactics. Amateurs are so polite, where most of GGG's ring career was spent. Gene's down jab may chop him to bits.

Greb
Hagler
Robinson
Monzon
Fitz
Langford
Walker
Ketchel
Cerdan
Zale
Lamotta
Turpin
Graziano
Fullmer
Giardello
Carter
GGG?

As you can see, GGG still has a bit to prove himself. A clear victory against Carnelo would lift him a few spots. Neither man has clearly beaten the other yet.

Some fine names on that list. Prove himself?

Questions!

How many had more title defenses?

How many hit harder?

How many took a better punch?

How many lost to lesser fighters?

How many fought past the age of 35?

If you reply to each question is just a few names comprised of the best tin history, he belongs.

I think he's accomplished only losing once on crooked cards with his opponent caught using PED's.

[QueensburyRules]

Golovkin's defenses of the WBA "regular" title shouldn't count towards any record.

Similar to how Canelo couldn't be considered a world champion at 168 for winning Rocky Fielding's "regular" title. It wasn't until this past weekend that Alvarez became a legit 4 division champion.

Boxing historians should, and will, look at that.

- -Better'n Poppy's first sham rule win and subsequent Midwestern ham&egger journeymen defenses.