Why is it always poor people that love capitalism ?

[01samuelc]

Here in Canada we've shoved down billions in Corporate Welfare similar to U.S. Get it......Welfare aka government intervention. Atleast we in Canada are Socialist so are expected to intervene.

Free Market alrite lets stay out of companies sinking but hey thats not gonna happen. Preaching the mantras of "life is not fair" or "get a better job" are only for the middleclass and poor.

Finally someone who gets it. Just like how society doesn't get a say on decisions of wealth generation and doesn't receive the rents and yet the costs are internalized unto us. Consequences of pollutions by corporates and incompetence in banking springs to mind. With the banking system i believe that the wealth generated could be used for the benefit of society as a whole and not to the <0.001% of the population seeing as it is our capital they are using to generate wealth.

[01samuelc]

You're a little late to the party.


If there are people "spewing" the same thing while receiving subsidies...then that still doesn't destroy the argument and those people shouldn't be receiving said subsidies. But I am One Capitalist...and speak for myself not for someone else who might be "spewing" the same message.

But which ppl are you referring to, just so we're clear?


By the same token...how bout them rich ppl who call for tax hikes while doing everything possible to reduce their own tax bill...wink wink Warren Buffet.

Surely you are smart enough to realise that if the we reverted to the 'capitalist model' of which you speak of the economy as we know it wouldn't last a week. So according to your argument we should have allowed the banking system to fail because the free markets hypothesis so. An example say you were a billionaire who owned a tobacco company, you do realise that most of the people who buy your product are poor people who rely on social benefits of some sort to be able to do so. I was actually reading an article either on the FT OR Bloomberg a while back that over 80% of the largest companies think boeing have at one point or another received financial subsidies, grants etc.

[One_Tycoon]

Poor people like capitalism because they are still hypnotised with the so called 'American Dream', although statistically only a select few without the expensive education or family connections would get access to the best jobs and therefore be successful. Capitalism imo will fail only when the middle class i.e the median voter comes to a conclusion that the current system is robbing them of their wealth

Yes....the current system which is not Free market Capitalism, though it still has components of a Market economy. But most poor people don't even know what Capitalism is...just go on the streets and ask them, they'r clueless. So it's a bit of a misnomer. They want jobs and they want higher pay...and they don't care how it happens, which makes them ****** and ignorant.


It's fallacious leftists like you why Laissez-faire Capitalism always falsely takes the blame for something that Govt helped create. Certainly leftist academia makes sure to drill this into young minds...so they have a disdain for the Private Sector and call for more Govt intervention & Central planning. It's the same pattern with this *****care law...introducing a supposed Private solution as the fall boy so "Capitalism" can be blamed and make way for a push for Single-Payer.

The old quote....Govt is only good at one thing, breaking your legs, handing you the crutches and then saying "see without me you wouldn't be able to walk"....applies here.

[One_Tycoon]

Surely you are smart enough to realise that if the we reverted to the 'capitalist model' of which you speak of the economy as we know it wouldn't last a week.

And that's a good thing. You're new around here so you missed my previous comments on this. We NEED a recession. A recession is a GOOD THING. A recession will cleanse the artificially propped up economy. It's called Liquidationism. This is not natural and hardly Free Market.

The U.S economy is addicted to cheap money from the Fed. It's can't live without it. The moment the Federal Reserve stops pumping billions per month into the economy...we are back in a official recession and they know it. Except that's what we need like a Drug addict needs rehab to detox. It's painful but necessary to restructure the imbalances and malinvestment that has been going on for too long. Either way...if they don't allow a recession to happen without interference, we're going to get it even worse with a economic equivalent of an OVERDOSE in the form of Stagflation [high inflation & high unemployment with no real growth]

[One_Tycoon]

With the banking system i believe that the wealth generated could be used for the benefit of society as a whole and not to the <0.001% of the population seeing as it is our capital they are using to generate wealth.

Free Banking is the solution:

That's Free Market Capitalism. Until we have something that resembles Free Banking...you can't blame Capitalism but the Monetary system created by the Govt, which we're all forced to live under and suffer it's inflationary consequences.

[01samuelc]

[QUOTE=One_Capitalist;14245376][B][COLOR="DarkRed"]Yes....the current system which is not Free market Capitalism, though it still has components of a Market economy. But most poor people don't even know what Capitalism is...just go on the streets and ask them, they'r clueless. So it's a bit of a misnomer. They want jobs and they want higher pay...and they don't care how it happens, which makes them ****** and ignorant.

Yes, which is why i should add that the socialist rhetoric spewed by marx and the bastardised versions by trosky et al is somewhat flawed because as you point out people respond to incentives and want to be better than others. I view the kibbutz system and even some of the socialist regimes in africa as proof of that. What I am advocating is socialism whereby wealth created from the capital markets is used to fund social welfare programmes and create more equal opportunities through better education for example.

It's fallacious leftists like you why Laissez-faire Capitalism always falsely takes the blame for something that Govt helped create. Certainly leftist academia makes sure to drill this into young minds...so they have a disdain for the Private Sector and call for more Govt intervention & Central planning. It's the same pattern with this *****care law...introducing a supposed Private solution as the fall boy so "Capitalism" can be blamed and make way for a push for Single-Payer.

If in this current system the costs of 'capitalism' are always internalised on society then yes we should be guaranteed some of the wealth created. If we are to operate under the free market capitalist model (which i don't think is sustainable without government intervention and regulation), then they can do whatever they want if the costs of the **** ups are not social costs and will wither away when the going gets tough for them.

[01samuelc]

Free Banking is the solution:

That's Free Market Capitalism. Until we have something that resembles Free Banking...you can't blame Capitalism but the Monetary system created by the Govt, which we're all forced to live under and suffer it's inflationary consequences.

Simple question, would you feel comfortable putting your money in a bank not insured by the government. Although i agree that the central bankers are there to serve their investment banking buddies and hence its the system created by the government. Is it right for me to assume you are middle class, how do you feel about being poorer and having a lower standard of living than your parents etc?

[01samuelc]

And that's a good thing. You're new around here so you missed my previous comments on this. We NEED a recession. A recession is a GOOD THING. A recession will cleanse the artificially propped up economy. It's called Liquidationism. This is not natural and hardly Free Market.

The U.S economy is addicted to cheap money from the Fed. It's can't live without it. The moment the Federal Reserve stops pumping billions per month into the economy...we are back in a official recession and they know it. Except that's what we need like a Drug addict needs rehab to detox. It's painful but necessary to restructure the imbalances and malinvestment that has been going on for too long. Either way...if they don't allow a recession to happen without interference, we're going to get it even worse with a economic equivalent of an OVERDOSE in the form of Stagflation [high inflation & high unemployment with no real growth]

Nooo a recession would lead to QE4, more reason for central bankers to lend to their banking buddies who don't lend and misallocate the capital on real estate speculation. I've got class tomorrow but i'll read your previous points later as I might have misunderstood your point. I also wanted to point out that just like what we have now is a bastardised form of capitalism, so was the 'socialism' in the USSR.

[One_Tycoon]

[QUOTE=01samuelc;14245415]

[B]

Yes, which is why i should add that the socialist rhetoric spewed by marx and the bastardised versions by trosky et al is somewhat flawed because

No...it's entirely flawed. Not somewhat. It shouldn't even be given consideration.

f in this current system the costs of 'capitalism' are always internalised on society then yes we should be guaranteed some of the wealth created. If we are to operate under the free market capitalist model (which i don't think is sustainable without government intervention and regulation),

No...it's the opposite. You put the cart before the horse. Capitalism cannot be sustained with Govt intervention and regulation. Leftists expect the Private Sector Capitalist forces to do all the heavy lifting under more and more burdensome regulation and barriers to entry....and when it doesn't perform up to par, instead of looking in the mirror and blaming all the Govt weight being placed on the back of Capitalism, they blame the ppl within the economy who produce all the goods & services that create wealth and raise the standard of living for everybody.

It's unfortunate that people mistake the State's misappropriation of resources from Capitalism, as Capitalism itself.

[One_Tycoon]

Nooo a recession would lead to QE4, more reason for central bankers to lend to their banking buddies who don't lend and misallocate the capital on real estate speculation. I've got class tomorrow but i'll read your previous points later as I might have misunderstood your point. I also wanted to point out that just like what we have now is a bastardised form of capitalism, so was the 'socialism' in the USSR.

You did misunderstand. QE4 will happen anyway as we're already in a quasi-recession and that's the only play they have. The only reason we're not officially in a recession is because the govt is manipulating the CPI [understating true inflation], the unemployment rate is misleading as the long term unemployed who have dropped out of the labor force and given up looking for work are not being counted as unemployed. They might call it something else then QUE... but printing money is the only tool they have left to postpone the pain...which will come anyway as the current Fiscal/Monetary system of spending, borrowing, printing, rinse & repeat.. is unsustainable. QE just makes it worse in the long run.

There are really only two options and both are painful: Let the recession happen and don't interfere. This is the good option. You make real cuts to govt spending [Austerity cuts is the pejorative word], balance the budget, shrink the size of govt. And you don't do anything in the form of a bail out, stimulus....and let a restructuring happen, similar to the time during the 1920-1921 Depression, which ended rather quickly because the govt stayed out of it...as opposed to the Great Depression with the New Deal, which lasted a long time because the govt didn't stay out of it.

Option 2... Keep going the way we're going right now, racking up more debt, more borrowing/spending, more ppl working in the Public Sector sucking the private economy dry, more people going on disability and other social programs...while asking for ever higher taxes [as if that's the problem], of which the end result will be a economic collapse that will make 2008 look like a picnic. I'm talking Stagflation with chronic unemployment, high prices, followed up by Govt price control and shortages.

Something which will take us much longer to dig our way out of.