Manny Pacquiao Is Not An 8 Division World Champion

[aboutfkntime]

- - U just a ward of the state?

Sad that. No matter, Manny has the belts and set the all time Ring P4P records and judged the 2nd best P4P fighter in the largest international poll ever conducted with only Sugar Ray Robinson.

nope... it aint a belt, that was just an award

like this, but without the $5.00...


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[JAB5239]

FACT: the Ring do not mandate, and they do not sanction... they are just a magazine lol

anyone who refers to that award as a genuine title... is just fooling themselves

how ridiculous

That is actually a very good point I hadn't considered before. If a champion is never compelled to fight the best he could realistically hold that title hostage until he retires.

[JAB5239]

nope... it aint a belt, that was just an award

like this, but without the $5.00...


OIP.qviCmX8sBM37g_hkct1wuQHaFU?pid=ImgDet&rs=1.jpg

..........

[Marchegiano]

Wlad was ranked #1, Vitali #2, Ruslan #3 ... #2 Vitali refused to fight #1 Wlad ... so the opportunity went to #3 Ruslan ... It's as much lineal it can be (historically)... It's not the first time a genuin world title was left vacated to fight for ...

I don't have a problem with it perse I'm just saying lineal, like everything else consensus, is inconsistent and its inconsistency is why I personally don't see it as having much if any historical value presently



What is the historical account for rankings in lineal? Lineal is older than rating lists. This really bugs me actually People want to invoke Sullivan, Sullivan's era, the belt that started with Sullivan, so on, but, ratings have something to do with John L. Sullivan's era, title, belt? Nope, no they did not. So, why on earth would I respect the title that's paraded as the historical title but uses the sanctioning body advent of rankings to justify a vacancy fight? That's not a historically accurate title, it's a mix-mash of what people like from bodies and what they don't. It's the body-alternative title and little else.

How come sometimes it's no one qualifies as lineal then other times there must be a lineal so whoever is close enough or has the best case gets the award? For five years(?) prior there's no lineal HW champion and then Wlad gets it off of Ruslan and it doesn't even follow the above gripe. It goes one farther. Saying Vitali refused Wlad is a bit here or there, I could say Wlad refused Vitali, the brothers refused a fight one another. 1 and 2 refused each other. Which is fine and noble but has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that historically this title moved without ranks and in no way justifies changing the 'rules' once again so that there can be a lineal champion. To me, both brothers decided to not be lineal if both brothers are 1 and 2 and refuse to fight no different than how both brothers decided to not be undisputed to allow the other brother to be a champion.

Historically when a champion retired they elected the next man and his opponent for a vacant fight. This tradition starts with Figg and Whitaker and continues into Cribb-Spring with the first physical belts being passed to the next man and was still the manner champions were crowned when Jeffries elected Hart and Root to a fight over his title. When a champion fought a man and then retired without electing a new champion the previous challenger usually claimed the title. I realize election and claim are well out of date, but, if we're going to make **** up because it's as close as we can get to how things went in the ye olden wouldn't it make more sense to see Vitali, in this case, who actually fought the last lineal, as the next lineal?

So, again, like I said, I have no problem with Wlad being lineal, but, modern lineal having anything to do with Sullivan's era I do. All belts pass by man who beat the man when there is no issues. Lineal used to pass without the need for ratings. It doesn't anymore. Who fought the last champion doesn't matter anymore and who the last champion thinks is the best active does not matter anymore. That's nothing to do with history and everything to do with sanctioning bodies' ideas and procedures. How is it anything but an alternative body belt? It acts and quacks like a duck while calling itself a dinosaur.

Fury getting Lewis's blessing is actually the most lineal **** I've seen in lineal in my lifetime.


That said, 70s-90s lineal, explanation wise, is a bit hard to figure out. I wouldn't mind being educated on how we got here.


Another beef I have with lineal that has nothing to do with this but is a history subject is weight classes. There are no formal or even consensus weight classes in lineal until after the bodies, NSC, formalize weight classes. Making those not historical titles but rather alternative to the body titles. A historically accurate lineal WW title has a variable weight for what WW means to it. The champion literally decided the weight limits. Again, a bit old school to expect a guy like Pac or some such to say WW now means from x to y weights, but, the whole point of lineal is we're fed up with bodies so we're going back to the titles before they ****ed things up....in this case they didn't, they made it happen.

[The Old LefHook]

I don't mind being called a halfwit ... 'cause I'm probably is.

But what about the other posters, who don't agree with you. Are they halfwits, just because they don't agree with you?

I don't even know if I was referring to you. We have a passel of halfwits around here. But with Ghost on Dempsey you ran into a full-train boxing scholar. He makes regular mincemeat of some of the local boys like Queensbree, Travesty and other'ns, by burka.

[Ben Bolt]

I don't even know if I was referring to you.

I don't mind if you did. After years of living, I've realized I'm not the smartest guy in town

[Ben Bolt]

Marchegiano, not to being rude, but I see your post as a defense talk for today's boxing orgs and their frequent dubious acts.

In my world, there can only be one world champion at the time.
It’s common sense in every other sport.

How proboxing has developed, there is no sense at all.
And sadly, the younger generation of followers have accepted, that there isn’t any need for it.
There are still room for plenty of more world champions … in every division … at the same time …

Cambridge Dictionary definition of ‘champion’: Someone who has all other in a .

[aboutfkntime]

That is actually a very good point I hadn't considered before. If a champion is never compelled to fight the best he could realistically hold that title hostage until he retires.

true, except... it aint a title, it is just an award

BIG diff !

[QueensburyRules]

true, except... it aint a title, it is just an award

BIG diff !

- -Like U being a ward of the state...simple

[The Old LefHook]

I don't mind if you did. After years of living, I've realized I'm not the smartest guy in town

Don't give up. You could still be the smartest guy around here, you see.