Duran is not a top ten ATG

[deanrw]

mmmm ive got an 8 year old I can punch but that would be easier that the horse! I heard kangaroo's like boxing? so that cant be cruel?

xx

Not anymore. A couple Kangaroo's went to ODLH to get a contract signed but he ate them instead.

[deanrw]

The thread starter is proof of how so many view boxing today. They view a loss as a coffin.

Duran is a top 10 ATG

[TheGreatA]

Someone said Duran was a top 5 ATG? Who was that?

Top 50 maybe, but top 5 my ass.

http://jeetwin24.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=225983

[warp1432]

Who did Hagler beat before he built his career on beating Duran,Hearns ?

Mustfa Hamsho, Vinto Antuofermo, Bennie Briscoe, Tony Sibson, Fuenco Obelmijas, and Alan Minter were all top Middleweights

[TheGreatA]

Mustfa Hamsho, Vinto Antuofermo, Bennie Briscoe, Tony Sibson, Fuenco Obelmijas, and Alan Minter were all top Middleweights

But we know that those names mean as much to the thread starter as names like Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Ernesto Marcel, Carlos Palomino, Hiroshi Kobayashi, Edwin Viruet, Hector Thompson, Saoul Mamby do...

If you (Brandish) don't really know or care about that particular era of boxing (the 70's which was Duran's prime), please don't start threads such as this.

No one will change their minds unless you come up with some better arguments.

It's not outrageous to say that Duran was not top 10 ATG, but again, you'll have to come up with something better than what you're coming up with now (basically calling everyone Duran fought a bum) if you want to convince anybody.

[Dynamite Kid]

Mustfa Hamsho, Vinto Antuofermo, Bennie Briscoe, Tony Sibson, Fuenco Obelmijas, and Alan Minter were all top Middleweights

Hamsho was a tough straight ahead Brawler but still not that good

Vito exactly the same style only a bit better but still not that good overall

Sibson,Minter average,decent fighters but nothing special

fully Obell decent fighter again but another guy that likes to brawl and fight

Roldan face first brawler who was not great either

all tough guys but neither are GREAT fighters


point im making is Haglers record is not BETTER than Duran's was at LW

Hamsho, Obell were virtual uknown quantity at that level untill they met Hagler

[Kid McCoy]

Great fighterbut highly overrated. like oscar he lost to most of the ATG's he faced

went 1-5 agianst the fab five

1. leonard- was 1-2 qon a close split decision in the first fight quit in embarrassing fashion in the rematch

2. Hagler--lost a wide UD

3. Benitez--lost a wide UD

4. Hearns-- brutal ko

was 12-7 in championship fights, only amassed 12 title defenses out of 100 + fights.

at the time he was fighting he was not considered the best, so how can people now want to turn around and say he had a better career then ray and tommy when he didn't do much after beating leaonard the first time at the age of 29

Duran started his career at 122lbs, peaked at 135 and was 71-1 before he even faced any of the Fab Four. That's 32 more fights than Leonard had in his entire career. That's more fights than Hearns, Benitez or Hagler ever managed. He is the only lightweight to win the middleweight title, which he won at age 37 and in his 92nd fight. Most certainly, none of the others were doing likewise at the same point in their careers.

He dominated his division more thoroughly than any of the others did theirs, and made more successful defences at 135 than Hearns, Leonard or Benitez made of their multiple titles. So what if 15 years and 80 fights into his career and 3/4 divisions above his peak weight, he started losing to the top guys, all of whom held significant advantages in height, reach, natural weight and youth? It was just remarkable how active and competitive he remained at that level.

Duran facing Hagler is the equivalent of Hagler moving up to take on Mike Spinks, except he never did. When Hearns moved up to take on bigger guys in Hagler and Barkley, he got bombed out. Leonard didn't do much outside of his own division, save for a highly controversial SD against a more shopworn version of Hagler, with no rematch, and proceeded to ignore up to a dozen prime dangerous middleweights in favour of a veterans tour against Hearns and Duran, before closing his career getting hammered against Norris and Camacho.

[DeckasRun]

Lets cut the crap and condense the facts for this threadstarting moronic sparrow fart.

THE GUY CLEANED OUT A DIVISION AND MOVED UP TWO WEIGHTS TO BEAT LEONARD !

That alone makes him an ATG.The rest of his career is an irrelevance.

[Steak]

duran was not a lightweight when he fought leonard, as a matter of fact duran hadn't fought at the lightweight limit for 2 years when he stepped in the ring against leonard why the exaggeration and myths when it comes to duran? he was not a lightweight when he fought leonard I repeat he had fought at 147 for 2 years before the leonard fight

that doesnt change the fact that Duran was at his best at 135lbs and jumped two weight divisions to face Leonard. thats like Mayweather coming up from 130 to beat Kostya Tsyzu at 140, except much better. hell, you could argue Duran jumped three weight classes since he had a pretty legitimate win at 130. but thats a stretch.

notable wins?



ernesto marcel is not in the HOF and anyone can get lucky it is what you do with your entire career that counts. so beating arguello doesn't certify marcel as a great fighter just another name on the slide when he fought duran

Marcel didnt beat a prime Arguello, nah...but Duran beat him when he was a teenager, and Marcel won a title only a year or two after that fight. Arguello himself won his title over HOF Ruben Olivares less than a year after his loss to Marcel, and Marcel defended his title a few times before beating Arguello. thats at worst a notable win.

you must be joking, this is why i say the guy is overrated so much how can you count kobayashi as some great victory who has he ever beaten, or what has he done that was significant in his career

the win over Kobayashi definitely isnt a career defining fight, but its not too bad. Kobayashi was the RING Magazine champ at 130 less than a year before Duran beat him. this was before Duran even won a title.

ken buchanan and what was his claim to fame again, oh that's right people duran beats automatically are great. ken is in the hof so I will give you that one.

claim to fame? I told you the first time. he beat guys like Ismael Laguna, Carlos Ortiz, and Carlos Hernandez. Carlos was pretty past his prime tho. not to mention that Buchanan was RING Magazine champ when Duran beat him.

oh please palomino was finished when he fought duran, and you know it. that's like kosta tszyu beating julio ceaser chavez

how was Palomino finished when he went to a split Decision with Benitez in his previous fight and had only lost one fight in about 5 years?

so beating ray leonard 1 time makes him the 5th best fighter of all time eventhough you probaly rate ray at around 10-15 all time? duran nuthuggers are pathetic.

the win over Leonard is probebly one of the biggest wins in the history of boxing. Leonard is probebly the #2 welterweight of all time, although you could throw some other names in there, and is at worst a top 25 p4p fighter all time, and Duran went up in weight to beat him. call me crazy, but thats a pretty huge win.

yep pipino was a goodf fightewr in his prime, but after hearns got hold of him he was finished, once again duran did not beat pipon when he was in his prime he was just a name when duran beat him

yea, Pipino had seen better days.

you mean 11-0 davey moore hardly the champ as you say he just held an alphabet belt

yes, he was just a normal champ, but he did have a win over Ayub Kayule, who was the RING Magazine champ before Leonard beat him, and Moore was in the top 5 when Duran beat him. Moore went on to beat Benitez a year after the fight. not everyone can say something like that.

please castro is not nor ever will be considered top 25 atg at middle but once again because duran beat him he must be a great fighter. totally ridiculous.

Castro had wins over Reggie Johnson(the man who knocked down James Toney and Antonio Tarver, and beat Steve Collins) former champ John David Jackson and even beat former Cruiserweight champ Imamu Mayfield. for a 46 year old former Lightweight to beat him is pretty impressive.

please clarify your statements, the IBF was introduced in 1980 so there were three title organizations during the time duran left lightweight and moved to welterweight. so please no excuses. as to why he could beat davey moore and iran barkley but wasn't good enough to defend either title same goes for his title win at 147 not one defence

right, the IBF was introduced in the 1980s, and Duran had been beating former/future champs since 1971 and left Lightweight before 1980, see? so his wins over former/future champs at 135 and below means much more than it does nowadays.

oh, and why didnt he defend his titles? because he ran into ATGs like Hearns, Hagler, and Leonard or vacated it. do you really expect a former Lightweight to beat the best Middleweight and Light Middleweight of all time?

[Brandish]

Lets cut the crap and condense the facts for this threadstarting moronic sparrow fart.

THE GUY CLEANED OUT A DIVISION AND MOVED UP TWO WEIGHTS TO BEAT LEONARD !

That alone makes him an ATG.The rest of his career is an irrelevance.

no one is saying duran is not an ATG I have him in my top 30 he won titles in 4 weight classes which is no easy feat, but he is no pernell whitaker and if you match his record in championship fights to whitaker, leonard, hagler, herarns and floyd he doersn't rank as a top 10 atg, some even have him top 5.